tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN July 22, 2011 10:00pm-12:00am PDT
>> i will. >> you have just made my skin crawl. daniel baldwin, thank you very much indeed. >> that is it for us tonight. ac 360 starts right now. i'm isha sesay with a special edition of anderson cooper just ahead. we begin tonight with breaking news. twin terror attacks in norway. late developments. plus an eyewitness describes news. twin tower attacks in norway. plus an eyewitness describes whattee saw. >> and late breaking news in washington. what brings deals to a halt. john boehner walks out of talks saying the president wouldn't raise taxes. that settles the war on words. >> my expectation was speaker boehner was going to be willing to rotate his caucus and ask them to do the tough thing but the right thing. i think it has proven difficult for speaker boehner to do that. i have been left at the altar right now a few times where. >> dealing with the white house
is like dealing with a bowl of jell-o. they refuse to get serious about cutting spending and making the tough choices that are facing our country on entitlement reform. that's the bottom line. >> president obama has asked them to come to the white house to tell them how he plans to avoid closing on the debt deadline. he was confident they could reach a deal, but now he said he would be at the white house tomorrow. so, is he backing off? chief white house correspondent jessica yellin joining me now. both sides putting their own spin on things. what happened today? >> i'll tell you from here at the white house, when the president received the call from speaker spoener saying the deal was off, i am told there was a sense of surprise, frustration, even exasperation that congress can't come to negotiate a real
deal. this is now the third time what seemed directionally leading to an actual deal broke down, and this time it seems to be over the question of taxes. in this instance, they had come to significant agreement over spending cuts and entitlement reform, but it broke down along the lines of just how much tax revenue was on the cable. both said $800 billion were on the table, there was a question of another $400 billion. the president said he was open of negotiating it, but for speaker boehner, it appears it was a deal breaker. now, with less than ten days go, nee deal, and each side blaming the other again with this time -- the clock ticking and each side not sure how the deal will get done. >> yeah, indeed. they raised the stakes earlier on, making a big deal saying he no longer wanted to work with
the white house, and yet we're hearing he's going to be at the white house tomorrow morning for more meatings. how is the white house iraqing to this? >> there's a lot of talk about the fact the president has put in repeated calls to speak eer boehner as the president tells it, in order to get a response. the white house made an outreach, an overture of the outline, and the president called speaker boehner's office first, and was told that speaker boehner wasn't available to talk to the president. this is not your stand protocol in president. you make yourself available to talk to the president or shortly thereafter. there is frustration about that expressed here, but there is still an openness and a willi willingness on both sides to negotiate because everybody wants to get the debt ceiling
raised, and here, also, they say maybe this obama/boehner framework could be the deal in the end, so it's still not off the table from this perspective. >> you say there's a willingness on both sides to talk, but the bottom line is can they reach a deal? what happens next, jessica? >> there's a meeting at 11:00 tomorrow morning. the congressional looders will then go off and talk about how they can get a negotiation done. they need a handshake agreement by sunday night so congress can take action next week. isha? >> okay. we appreciate it. thank you. we now go to norway where the death toll from the terrorist attack is at least 17. dozens were injured. in one attack, a bomb ripped through the center of oslo, attacking government buildings. the blast could be felt for
miles. the other attack was outside the capitol at a political youth camp where a man opened fire. a man rushed to the scene and described what he saw after his boat reached the shore, dead bodies, youngsters who appear to have been gunned down as they tried to hide. >> they run down to the shore to seek shelter, but then they died on the spot there together. >> well, tonight, a norwegian man is in custody and police say there are no ideas on a motive. we're joined by phone. you were in bed when these blastzs happene eed describe to what you heard and what you saw. >> lest you think i'm lazy for
being in bed. i flew from new york to oslo overnight. i'm a pilot, we got in about noon time. i slept for a couple hours before i was going to get up and make an afternoon of it. right at about 3:30, there was an extreme concusive explosion, and i thought maybe my bed had been struck by loigening and maybe at the same time, an earthquake had struck. it was so forceful, it violented shook the hotel i was in, which was a large tower downtown. i sensed there must be something wrong and looked outside to see a wall, a giant cloud of dust and smoke rising from the plaza area where the bombings occurred. and i could see the debris spreading outward and people kind of being covered with it in the same sense that i saw on september 11th living in new york city. i had many of the same visual
cues from the attacks of september 11th, 2001. >> update our viewers, this is a fast-moving story. we're getting word from norwegian police that the death toll could rise to 80. right now, the number is 17. this is the latest information we're getting. they're now telling us that the death toll could rise significantly and it could rise to 80. to go back to what you were describing in terms of the af r aftermath, i read report of the absolute panic breaking out in this city center. talk to me about that. >> from my viewpoint, actually, i didn't see so much panic as a state of disbelief and confusion. i think it's been reported about how safe norway feels and oslo is a tame and organized city, and there was very much a feeling that this must not be happening. we must be misunderstanding the situation. at least from what i could see,
which was in the immediate vusinsty of the plaza area but not the plaza itself. people were more confused and stunned. i didn't see people running for a few minutes there was general confusion. and then the emergency response started to take over, and you could see they were rushing in to treat the injured and stabilize the situation. >> norway is a shocked and stunned country tonight as they take in the events that have taken place. ian yojoining us, we really appreciate it. stay safe. stay with cnn for the latest developments on the latest breaking news in norway and in washington, and new developments in the casey anthony story this week. we'll get to this in anderson cooper's story, crime and punishment. that's next. i have astigmatism.
my old contacts would sometimes move and blur my vision. then my eye doctor told me about acuvue® oasys for astigmatism. he said it's the only lens of its kind designed to realign naturally with every blink so now, i'm seeing more clearly. [ male announcer ] learn more at acuvue.com. ♪ i like your messy hair ♪ i like the clothes you wear ♪ i like the way you sing ♪ and when you dance with me ♪ you always make me smile [ male announcer ] we believe you're at your best when you can relax and be yourself. and at thousands of newly refreshed holiday inn hotels, you always can. holiday inn. stay you.
and now stay rewarded with vacation pay. stay two weekend nights and get a $75 prepaid card. desperate for nighttime heartburn relief?y. for many, nexium helps relieve heartburn symptoms caused by acid reflux disease. talk to your doctor about your risk for osteoporosis-related bone fractures if you take multiple daily doses of nexium for a long time. possible side effects include headache, diarrhea, and abdominal pain. other serious stomach conditions may still exist. talk to your doctor about nexium. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help.
distracted driving. it accounts for 25% of car crashes. - ♪ [ dance ] - music, cell phones, food-- the list goes on. this is why safe driving is so important. - correct. - and it's why the best agents... help safe drivers get a lower rate. - oh! - exactly. ♪ another dream but always you ♪ whoa! ♪ it's like a vision-- [ tires squeal ] ♪ [ resumes ] [ man announcing ] we are insurance. ♪ we are farmers bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ this is an anderson cooper special report, crime and punishment, most notorious crime. today, the social chameleon who
pretended to be a rockefeller. also, the kings of hip-hop cut down at the height of fame, and the san francisco zodiac killer. and also some developments in a murder that has gone unsolved since 1947, l.a.'s black dahlia case. now a former police detective says he knows who the killer is and it's a shocker. his very own father. a big hour ahead tonight with america's best known crusader for justice, john walsh. also anderson, dr. drew pinsky and me. we begin with casey anthony. a little more than two weeks after a jury in orlando acquitted her in the death of her daughter caylee, a new revelation. something the jury never heard that's raising even more doubt about the prosecution's case. the latest from martin savidge. >> reporter: it was one of the most powerful elements of the prosecution's case against casey anthony. >> okay. let's bring your jury in. >> reporter: a clear indicator, prosecutors said, the mother of 2-year-old caylee planned her daughter's death. >> this murder was premeditated.
and the defendant is guilty. >> reporter: a main reason the state wanted the death penalty, chloroform. but just where did the idea of chloroform originate? authorities say they found evidence of online searches for chloroform locked in the memory of a computer in the home casey shared with her parents. >> entry number 3, the www.sizespot.com chemistry/chloroform, how many times was that site visited? >> according to the history, 84 times. >> reporter: the revelation so damning it's believed to have motivated casey's mother cindy, fearing for her daughter's life, to shock the court and suddenly admit she was the one doing the searches. >> and i started looking up chloroform -- i mean chlorophyll, and then that prompted me to look up chloroform. >> then monday it was revealed the extensive computer searches for chloroform were based on inaccurate data. in an online statement, john bradley, the prosecution's man
on the stand who had cited the significant number of searches, said ten days after his testimony he went back and revisited the data and retooled his software. and found a mistake. there weren't 84 searches for chloroform, only one. since the trial was still going on, bradley said he immediately notified the prosecution of the error. in a statement on his web site he said, "i even offered to fly down there overnight at my own expense to set the record straight since the fate of a woman's life could lay in this critical piece of information." bradley told the "new york times" his revelations were never presented to the jury, and the record was never corrected. leading defense attorney cheney mason to fire back to the times, "if in fact this is true and the prosecution concealed this new information, it is more than shame on them. it is outrageous". but the prosecutor's office said it did tell the defense of the error. it also says a second software program used to analyze the
anthony computer showed only one chloroform search as well. >> showing the size spot one time. >> reporter: in a statement, state attorney lawson lamar said, "court records show that defense was completely aware of the issues, utilizing these facts at trial". in fact, defense attorney jose baez did bring up the >> there are no such searches of being 84 times for chloroform. >> reporter: mysteriously wednesday, bradley stopped talking, declining our request for an interview. instead, issuing another statement, this time through his attorneys. it read, "mr. bradley denies making any comments that either determined and/or implied any wrongdoing on behalf of the prosecutor's office". the debate may be pointless, given the jury's verdict that casey anthony was not guilty of murder. but it's another unanswered question in a trial that had many. martin savidge, cnn. >> and plenty to talk about now with me, defense attorney mark gerragos and san francisco prosecuting attorney paul
henderson. welcome to both of you. this is a fascinating revelation. mark, had casey anthony been convicted this issue with the chloroform searches would have been grounds for a new trial. i mean, is that right? >> it certainly would have led off a motion for a new trial, this and all the other junk sky athens the prosecution presented. i think this just kind of points out to the fact that the jury got it right and this just supports everything that i kind of suspected from the get go. this idea that somehow there were 84 searches of this or that just wreaked at the time of somebody who just didn't know what they were doing when they were looking at the searches. >> would you have said, as a defense lawyer, what would you have done in the situation? if it just smacked of not making sense? >> i've had this precise case twice over with murder cases where somebody has gotten up and purported to be an expert and then take an look at the search. and it's really just the fact that they can't read it properly. >> you know, paul, needless to say a lot of people are paying
attention to this and i think a lot of people paid attention to that particular part of this case. according to the post that bradley put on his web site, he said he thought the 84 searches seemed odd but didn't bring it up because he didn't have details about the investigation and didn't investigate the evidence himself. could he, should he have brought these misgivings up at the time? >> yeah, absolutely. i mean, the police and the prosecuting attorney were using the information from his program. i mean, that's how they got it. and obviously, that seemed very relevant for casey if she had searched chloroform 84 times, that means something. that's why they were trying to introduce this evidence in the first place. >> i mean, it seems like everyone found this particular fact odd. i mean, is this one of those situations where the prosecution just said, you know what, it's odd but let's throw it out there and see if it sticks? >> it might not be odd if that was what happened. so if someone searches for chloroform 84 times, that does mean something.
>> i've got a totally different view of that. yes, the prosecutor would want to get it in but only because the prosecutor suspended all common sense because they're so invested in their theory. anybody who had any kind of experience with the computer or computer searches should have known and bells and whistles should have gone off telling you that there's no way somebody was going to do 84 searches within that time period. >> paul, let me ask you a question as admittedly a non-legal person. what's your take on expert testimony from paid witnesses in general? i mean, is this a necessity for certain cases? and should jurors view the testimony of someone who's getting paid any differently than they would have a witness who isn't receiving money for their testimony? >> oh, believe me. every time you have a trial and you have the witnesses on there that's always part of the line of questioning as to how much you're getting paid and how many times you've testified either for the prosecution or for the defense. and we trust jurors to understand that and evaluate if there's a bias or if there's truthfulness in the testimony.
but in a case like this where you have so little evidence, i think you're always -- you can always expect as a juror that both sides are going to be throwing experts at you one way or the other trying to influence your decision and trying to give you a lens at looking at what other evidence exists in the case in association with the incident to try and get you to a conclusion that either side is going to fight about. >> does it come out in the wash, mark gerragos? both the defense and prosecution do this? >> i call it the knock out rule. you put on your expert, they put on their expert. the jury disregards both. >> the interesting thing is how the both sides argue about the experts afterwards. because that's where you really see what the experts did. you wait for the attorneys, both for the prosecution and the defense, to summarize both their experts' testimony and the other side's testimony. that's when the decisions get made. >> well, just a fascinating revelation. weeks after the fact, though. i appreciate it, both mark gerragos, paul henlder son. thanks so much. >> thanks for having us.
up next, another notorious criminal. the man who claimed to be clark rockefeller, a member of an elite american family. that was a life. and there were many, many more. now he's accused of murder. and later, the killings of tupac shakur and biggie smalls and the street code against cooperating with police, even to get justice for a friend. crime fighter john walsh weighs in. >> somebody helped orchestrate that b.s. gangster crap. and they've literally gotten away with murder. i do believe that somebody is going to man up at some point in their life and say, this isn't right. biggie had friends, relatives. he had a mother, people that loved him. tupac had lots of people, he has surviving children. in here, the planned combination of at&t and t-mobile would deliver our next generation mobile broadband experience to 55 million more americans, many in small towns and rural communities, giving them a new choice. we'll deliver better service, with thousands of new cell sites...
for greater access to all the things you want, whenever you want them. it's the at&t network... and what's possible in here is almost impossible to say. -why? -why? -why? [ female announcer ] we all age differently. roc® multi-correxion 4 zone moisturizer with roc®retinol and antioxidants. lines, wrinkles, and sun damage will fade. roc multi-correxion. correct what ages you.
roc multi-correxion. discover customersl are getting five percent cashback bonus at the pump... and at many of the places their summer plans take them. it pays to switch, it pays to discover. i don't know. the usual? [ blower whirring ] sometimes it pays to switch things up. my - what, my hair? no. car insurance. i switched to progressive and they gave me discounts for the time i spent with my old company. saved a bunch. that's a reason to switch. big savings -- it's a good look for you. [ blower whirring ] [blower stops] the safety was off. out there with a better way. now, that's progressive.
for years he went by the name clark rockefeller him. pretended to be a member of the wealthy american family. his true identity came to light when he was charged with kidnaping his own daughter. that's when police say he uncovered a web of lies that went back decades. now he's accused of killing a neighbor more than 25 years ago. here's tom foreman. >> reporter: they say pictures don't lie, but this one did. and this one. and maybe thousands more of the man called clark rockefeller. because investigators believe he was almost never whom he claimed to be. and in his rocket rise to the top of society, they think he committed murder. >> well, he's a man who built his life on fiction. >> reporter: mark seal wrote "the man in the rockefeller suit". the astonishing rise and
spectacular fall of a serial imposter. >> he didn't just do this with one name or one persona. he did it repeatedly, time after time after time after time. in increasing graniosity. increasingly intelligent, learned, successful circles. >> reporter: his story starts long ago in 1978 when under his real name, christian gerhartschreiter, a working class german teen, he came to america and found the life he wanted on tv. >> good morning, mr. and mrs. howell. beautiful day. >> ideal flying weather. >> if you remember the television show "gilligan's island". he started watching that. and apparently began to emulate the excentric east coast millionaire thur ton howell iii, mimicking his speech and his accent and his way of life in a way. >> reporter: police say that started a decades-long odyssey
of moving and new identities. in wisconsin he was film student chris gerhart, dreaming of fame and rooting for ronald reagan. in california he said he was christopher chichester a member of the british royal family, hob knock with hollywood insiders. in connecticut he became chris crowe, former film producer. and he actually landed a job as a bond trader. investigators say he was smart, quick-thinking, and all of his credentials, connections and histories were elaborate frauds. still, authorities say, he rubbed elbows with the rich and powerful, joined their churches and clubs, and ten lived off of the generosity of people who thought he was the one with all the money and contacts. when they grew suspicious, he simply slipped away. then, in new york in the early 90s he took on his biggest role, clack rockefeller. he assembled an impressive art
collection, almost all fakes, and he met a woman who was attracted to this charming, secretive, quirky member of one of the country's most powerful families. >> well, he was entertaining. he was educated, seemingly. he was fun to be around. he knew a little bit about everything. >> reporter: they married, had a daughter, and the child became the center of his life. so much so that when the couple divorced after 12 years and his wife got custody, he kidnaped the girl from a boston street. >> this man had built a life on lies. and the only true thing in his life was his love for his daughter. and that's what blew the lid off of a 30-year con. >> reporter: he and the girl were picked up in baltimore less than a week later where he was building yet another alias, this time as a ship captain. he was convicted of the kidnapping, but it was much worse than that. as his trail of deception was revealed, authorities in california realized he was the man they had hunted in a missing
person's case. the couple had been involved with a long-gone royal, christopher chichester. he has pleaded not guilty to a single charge of murder, and he sits in jail today, one man with many pasts awaiting trial. tom foreman, cnn, washington. >> and now dr. drew pinsky joins me to talk about this man who claimed to be clark rockefeller. that's extraordinary stuff. dr. drew, you believe first of all you actually crossed paths with this man years ago. what happened there? >> well, i was working in a psychiatric hospital. and i got a call, a very peculiar call from a woman. never really understood who she was or identified herself but she kept me on the phone for a good half and hour going on and on about how she had this special person with a special relationship that he was so powerful and had so much money that he needed all this sort of -- brought in under the cloak of darkness but that he was really suffering and he had pain and all these different things. and i thought, wow, this whole thing sounds mysterious, shady, not right to me.
and i remember hearing about this when it sort of came to light. i thought, boy, that's probably who this guy was. another con man out there bringing people around him to support his con. >> that's pretty remarkable to think about. i mean, you think about all the lies that he told and then his manipulation obviously of so many people. how do you put that together? is there a component of mental illness? is this a guy who was really good at lying? >> >> well, you know, one of the things, through covering the casey anthony case, i reviewed a lot of literature on lying per se. and one of the things that's very clear about lying is that it doesn't -- pathological liar, persistent lying, lying where it involves really distortions of reality, it doesn't exist as an isolated phenomenon. it always exists in the setting of other issues psychologically, psychiatrically. >> if you take that a step further, dr. drew, we know that sometimes people lie to create alternate identities, maybe to escape something, perhaps something painful. is that common or a prerequisite
even? >> well, lying again to distort reality towards some particular ends, again i hate to keep hearkening back to casey anthony but we've all been very preoccupied with that. people are suggesting that she was lying, too, in order to protect herself from something horrible that she did. as opposed to say somebody with again these personality disorders for whom their version of reality just begs no alternative. they just don't see anything different. now, in this case as the man next to me here in this particular window, my suspicion is it's more something in the sociopathic spectrum where they take on that identity as a means of manipulating other people to their own ends because they really don't care about other people, feelings aren't important to them, other people aren't important to them. only getting what they need from other people is what counts. >> and they always know that they're lying, though. i mean, they're always aware of that. >> in this case, yeah. i certainly -- and i think i'm sure you've encountered people too where certain parts of the brain are involved in this kind
of distortion where people are questionable whether they actually believe their own lies or not. in situations like this, they're very astute at taking on a character but they know. >> you saw the end of this piece. and some say that this man's love for his daughter is sort of the truest thing in his life that's full of lies. is he capable of having this true thing in his life in the form of his daughter? >> no. there's just no way that he had a real or healthy relationship with the daughter, given his past. i worry about what that relationship was, obviously. and certainly, again, the people that have terribly vacant or abusive childhoods can become overidealizing of their own children, overly enmeshed with them. they don't have to be abusive and abandoning, they can go the other direction. and as such cannot tolerate being out of their presence even. >> that's really fascinating stuff. dr. drew pinsky, thanks so much. >> appreciate it. thanks.
still ahead, the unsolved murders of two rap rivals. tupac shakur and biggie smalls. both shot dead in their cars six months apart. more than a decade later, both cases still making headlines. plus the zodiac killer, a cold case that remains as baffling as ever almost five decades later. a serial killer who terrorized california's bay area, taunting the police and the press with letters. cold case crusader job john walsh describes how the zodiac may have personally threatened him. >> when i first profiled the zodiac killer, i got a letter sent exactly like his code. is was signed in blood, in human blood. it said, i will kill you. you will be the ultimate victory. [ female announcer ] goodnight gluttony,
a farewell long awaited. goodnight, stuffy. goodnight, outdated. goodnight old luxury and all of your wares. goodnight bygones everywhere. [ engine turns over ] good morning, illumination. good morning, innovation. good morning unequaled inspiration. [ male announcer ] the audi a8, chosen by car & driver as the best luxury sedan in a recent comparison test. you know, when i got him on e-trade he was all like "oh no, i cannot do investing." that's actually a perfect enzo. but after a couple educational videos, and a little hand holding from customer support... next thing you know he's got a stunning portfolio. now he's planning to retire in tuscany. we're both pretty emotional about it.
shhhh, don't say a word. you're welcome. [ male announcer ] e-trade. investing unleashed. now?! [ female announcer ] crest whitestrips two hour express. in just two hours you can have a noticeably whiter smile that lasts for months. hi. hi. [ female announcer ] two hour whitestrips from crest. life opens up when you do. our girl's an architect. our boy's a genius. we are awesome parents! biddly-boop. [ male announcer ] if you find a lower rate on a room you've booked, we won't just match it. we'll give you $50 towards your next trip. [ gnome ] it's go time. we'll give you $50 towards your next trip. agents, what did we learn here today? that lint balls are extremely flammable... ...that's why it's important to regularly clean and inspect your vents. correct. [ male announcer ] we are insurance. ♪ we are farmers ♪ bum, ba-da-bum, bum, bum, bum ♪
the unsolved murder of two icons of rap still make headlines more than a decade later. tupac shakur and biggie smalls also known as notorious b.i.g., were gunned down six months apart. the way they were killed is eerily similar. former friends who were rival when they died, they were signed with duelling record labels. both cases still open. and at the end of last year, law enforcement was pursuing new leads in biggie smalls' murder. both cases still generate speculation, but few clear answers. anderson talked to cold case crusader john walsh about both cases. first let's give you the facts about what we do know. here's ted rowlands. >> reporter: las vegas, september 7, 1996. mike tyson is fighting bruce sheldon at the mgm grand hotel. multiplatinum rap artist tupac shakur is there to watch tyson,
his friend. after the fight, shakur rode with his boss, shug nooirt, the ceo of death row records to a party just off the las vegas strip. the security team went in separate cars. knight was behind the wheel, shakur in the front passenger seat, when witnesses say a white cadillac pulled up next to them at the intersection of in a ming go and covault. they say then a gunman in the cadillac extended his hand out of the backseat and fire add semiautomatic pistol to shakur at close range. after the shooting the cadillac made a right hand turn on cobalt speeding away. shuug knight with tupac bleeding in the front seat made a u turn and started driving back towards the strip. two police officers on duty heard the gun shots. when they responded they followed sug knight and tupac which aloud the white cadillac to get away. there were several possible motives for the murder. three hours before the shooting this mgm casino surveillance
video shows shakur, sug knight and their entourage attack, orlando anderson, an l.a. area gang member. many believe that anderson, seen here after the beating, and his friends shot shakur in retaliation. cnn asked anderson about the accusations. >> were you involved in any way in the death of tupac shakur? >> no, i was not involved. >> reporter: anderson was shot and killed months later in a gang-related shooting. another theory focused on the gangster world that tupac sang about. many believe the murder was part of an east coast-west coast rap war and a dispute between shakur and this man, a one-time friend named christopher wallace. made famous with his hits like big papa" wallace, a new york rapper was known as biggie smalls or notorious b.i.g. during an interview with san
francisco radio station kyld, smalls denied any involvement in tupac's death, and seemed to want to put any rap war to rest. >> i'm just getting over, you know, seeing this whole situation with this east coast-west coast thing. and going through their things and we're going through our things. that just came over, you know what i'm saying? >> i want to like basically squash it. >> reporter: four days later, on march 9, 1997, biggie smalls was shot and killed in los angeles. smalls was leaving a music industry party. he was shot at a busy intersection while riding in the passenger seat of this suburban. >> reporter: the shooting was eerily similar to tupac's six months earlier. >> given the fact that they were both gangster rap artists, naturally our people will be contacting the las vegas authorities to see if there's any connection in the two. >> where this blue vehicle is is where biggie's suburban was. he was stopped just like this vehicle right here. >> reporter: former l.a.p.d.
detective russell poole was one of those assigned to the biggie smalls' case. witnesses say the gunman looked like this. he was alone, drove up next to smalls and shot him at close range. poole is convinced that sug knight ordered biggie smalls' murder, even though knight was behind bars at the time. he also believes that off-duty lapd officers who were working for knight's death row records helped plan the murder. >> sug knight ordered the hit. reggie wright jr. the head of security for rightway security and death row organized the personnel to plan the hit. and i believe police officers were a big part of the hit. >> reporter: poole says he believes sug knight also had tupac shakur killed because the rapper was planning to leave knight's death row records. poole says he retired early from the lapd out of frustration because of this case, saying the department didn't allow him to pursue leads that involved other cops.
>> i think i was getting too close to the truth. i think they feared that truth would be a scandal. >> reporter: poole later assisted biggie smalls' mother in a lawsuit, claiming la police covered up officer's involvement in the shooting. the fbi looked into potential police involvement but didn't find any evidence of it. we couldn't get sug knight to sit down for an interview, but he has told cnn he had nothing to do with either murder. reggie wright jr. did agree to appear on camera. he was death row records's head of security who says he ran the company while sug knight was in prison. >> did you have anything to do with tupac's murder? >> no, sir. >> or biggie's? >> no, sir. >> reporter: wright says he believes that tupac was simply killed in retaliation for the casino fight and sug knight, who he says he no longer talks, to was not involved. >> know that he 100% had nothing to do with the murder of tupac shakur. >> sug knight? >> sug knight.
biggie smalls i honestly do not know. >> reporter: cnn learned earlier this year that local and federal authorities received new information that reinvigorated the investigation into biggie smalls' slaying. as of now, both rap star's murders remain a mystery. ted rowlands, cnn, los angeles. >> with the killing of tupac shakur, also notorious b.i.g., there are clearly people out there who witnessed this, who witnessed both of these killings and yet have not come forward, have not said anything. >> you know what bothers me is this b.s. thing, the stop snitching where some of these rappers say, you know, don't tell, don't cooperate with police. we'll retaliate. i remember going to boston and doing a case where there was a gang banger in jail. and his defense attorney got the witness list and he had one of the witnesses killed in south boston from jail. so they couldn't testify against him. then came this stop snitching t-shirts and all this crap. it could be your neighbor. i don't care where you live. yes, if you're afraid of retaliation. but if you witnessed a murder or
you know something about it, then do the right thing. you can remain anonymous. you can be protected. god forbid it's your brother that's the next victim or your father or your cousin or your daughter or your wife. they know exactly. people know exactly who killed biggie. we did biggie's case on the show. and we had big, big push back from the hiphop community about not doing biggie's case. and nobody would cooperate with police. i say one thing. you can remain anonymous. if it was your brother and somebody shot him cold-bloodedly, wouldn't you want to do the right thing? >> that's the thing. i mean, there were people -- i mean, in tupac shakur's case there were people sitting right next to him. and biggie smalls' case there were people who witnessed this. and these are people who claimed to be his friends. they were people who made money off him. made money from him. and yet refused to say anything. because they're afraid -- maybe they're afraid for their own life. i don't even give them that much credit. they're just afraid of being seen as a snitch which is just absurd. >> it takes a lot of courage to do the right thing. it takes a lot of guts to say, i
know who did that. this is the person. this is what happened. i've been on the streets. most of the people in those areas where these gangsters operate, they're terrified. they're good people. they're trapped there by poverty. they would do the right thing. >> do you have any insights. you've done tupac shakur's killing. do you have any insights on who killed him or why? >> all this east-west rivalry twoen the different hiphop factions and the gangster thug stuff, i really believe that maybe people that were with tupac or people that were with biggie didn't see who the shooter was, didn't see who drove by and did the shootings, didn't see who shot tupac. but somebody knows. somebody helped orchestrate that b.s. gangster crap and they've literally gotten away with murder. i do believe that somebody is going to man up at some point in their life and say, this isn't right. biggie had friends, relatives. he had a mother, people that loved him. tupac had lots of people. he has surviving children. they need justice. and you're just a coward if you don't man up and say, i think i
know who did it. this is who it is. this is what happened. i don't want to leave my name. get you back on track. you can break this case. >> still ahead, two of the oldest and most notorious cold cases of all-time. the vicious murder known as the black dahlia case, a 22-year-old woman tortured and killed by someone police said could wield a knife like a surgeon. plus the zodiac killer blamed for the string of murders in northern california. the killer's coded letters to police have inspired countless theories. john walsh believes the zodiac may have threatened him personally. he's going to weigh in on both ♪
♪ i like the way you sing ♪ and when you dance with me ♪ you always make me smile [ male announcer ] we believe you're at your best when you can relax and be yourself. and at thousands of newly refreshed holiday inn express hotels, you always can. holiday inn express. stay you. and now stay rewarded with vacation pay. stay two weekend nights and get a $75 prepaid card. and now stay rewarded with vacation pay. good night, frank. good night. desperate for nighttime heartburn relief? for many, nexium helps relieve heartburn symptoms caused by acid reflux disease. talk to your doctor about your risk for osteoporosis-related bone fractures if you take multiple daily doses of nexium for a long time. possible side effects include headache, diarrhea, and abdominal pain. other serious stomach conditions may still exist. talk to your doctor about nexium. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help.
the country's eldest unsolved mystery, the black dahlia case. it was and remains one of the most vicious murders on record. in a moment anderson talks to john walsh about this baffling cold case and also about the zodiac killer. first though ted rowlands has more on the crime that shook los angeles 64 years ago. >> reporter: 22-year-old elizabeth short's gruesome 1947 murder shocked los angeles. her naked body was found surgically cut in half and carefully placed out in the open in a vacant lot. >> it was a body horribly severed in two. blood completely dry. face disfigured. and left in a vacant lot, arms up to the sky, as if she were communicating a message from the killer to los angeles and the nation. and we're still trying to figure out what the message was. >> reporter: the press ran with the name "black dahlia" after learning it was elizabeth short's nickname.
an aspiring actress, the paper said she'd come to los angeles from medford, massachusetts. the story not only dominated the front pages back then but has inspired dozens of books and movies, including the 2006 motion picture "the black dahlia". >> guys. guys. please. don't tram pell over everything, please. easy. secure the area. listen up. no reporters view the body. >> we are all looking for a language to explicate, the remorseless, horrifying, arrogant and narcissistic rage perpetrated upon her. >> reporter: after murder the killer taunted police with letters, but the case was never solved. this box of evidence still sits with l.a.'s other cold case files. >> the suspect drove up here probably about 6:30 in the morning. >> reporter: former lapd detective steve ho d,l showed us the area where elizabeth's body was found. he worked hundreds of homicide
cases during his 30-year career. he's convinced that he knows who the dahlia killer is. he believes it was his own father, dr. george hodel. >> he hated mankind. and this was his way of getting even. >> reporter: hodel says when his dad died in 1999, this mysterious photograph he believes is elizabeth short turned up in his father's personal effects. hodel says that sparked an interest in the black dahlia case. and then, he saw one of the old letters that the killer had sent to police. >> that's my father's handwriting. >> reporter: he'd set out to clear his father's name, but the more he probed, other things started falling into place. >> i started looking and researching the crime itself and discovered that the killer was actually a surgeon. couldn't have been anybody else other than a surgeon. well, dad was a skilled surgeon. >> reporter: the police file reveals that dr. george hodel was an original suspect. his home, this frank lloyd wright mansion on franklin avenue and hollywood, was even
bugged boy police. during the same time period, hodel was arrested for raping his 14-year-old daughter. he was found not guilty at trial. but the most damning evidence steve says against his father may be a receipt found at dr. hodel's home for 50-pound cement bags dated a few days before the murder. the same type of bags were found at the scene and used to transport the body according to investigators. dr. hodel moved to the philippines before he was ever interviewed by police. steve says his father made frequent trips back to california. in his book, "the black dahlia avenger" steve hodel says he believes his father was a serial killer. he argues that there's even a chance he may have been the zodiac killer. >> this was a classic sadist who was very evolved. >> reporter: los angeles times writer larry harnish doesn't think george hodel had anything to do with the dahlia murders or any others. harnish, who spent years researching the dahlia murder, believes the killer was another doctor whose daughter was friends with elizabeth short's
sister. he lived a block away from where the body was found. >> it ties together the neighborhood, the crime scene, and the house a block away. and the connection between the two families. and he was a surgeon and he was having a lot of mental problems. he was the one individual who certainly was perfectly capable of doing that. >> reporter: there are other theories. mobster bugsy siegel is suspected by some who believe he had elizabeth short killed as part of a mob turf war. unfortunately, there's no crime scene dna, and as time goes on the likelihood drops that anyone who knows the truth is still alive. the black dahlia likely will be a cold case that's never solved. ted rowland, cnn, los angeles. >> the black dahlia case. i mean, this is a case which has fascinated hollywood and the country for decades. >> best-selling book, movie. all that spin. but i do believe that who killed the black call yeah, the main suspect they had, the doctor who
is now deceased, i believe he got away with that. they never charged him. he was a stalker. he was the main suspect. they never had enough to indict him. she was dismembered by someone who had great knowledge of anatomy and had skills in surgery. he was a logical suspect. but back in those days, they didn't have the tools that we have now. >> it was obviously sensationalized the case not just because the victim was beautiful but because of the gruesome way that she was killed. >> the way he displayed her. he displayed her as a trophy like lots of serial killers and horrible narcissistic murderers do. he displayed her in the field for the whole world to see his work. in my heart and in my gut from doing this so many years i believe it was that doctor. >> it's also interesting there were so many false confessions, people coming forward and saying they were involved. >> look in the jonbenet ramsey. lock at that creep that confessed. look at that low life. all of them. they want their 15 minutes of fame, anderson. they want to get on "anderson
cooper 360" and say, i killed that person. they were a low life scum bag here. now all of a sudden somebody's paying attention to them. people confess to murders they didn't do all the time. only for the notoriety. >> zodiac killer's probably most famous cold case in the u.s. why do you think there's so much fascination with it. >> because he terrorized and held san francisco captive for so long. they locked down that city. when he said, if you keep looking for me i have a sniper's rifle. i will kill kids getting off of the buses. he claimed to have killed multiple victims. they believe he killed seven people. it actually paralyzed a city, a united states city, one low life coward paralyzed that city. people are fascinated. he always sent this cryptic code around. and everybody analyzed it. when i first profiled the zodiac killer, i got a letter sent exactly like his code, to me in the same type of envelope that he sent. i had to give it to the fbi. it was signed in blood, in human blood.
it said, i will kill you. you will be the ultimate victory. i got away with it. i've committed mayhem since i murdered those people. you will be my ultimate prize. i still have the ability to kill people. it fascinated -- we don't know if it was the zodiac killer. nobody knows. i mean, but it fast mates people when somebody gets away with murder and they brag about it. >> the zodiac killer has seven con femd victims, five of whom died. but he is suspected possibly to have dozens more. >> he claims to have had dozens more. police have certified him. i don't know how you do that but certified him with those seven. i have a feeling, my gut feeling is that he moved somewhere else, that he moved places like the green river killer did and they continue. we have so many unsolved serial killer clusters in the united states. there's a fbi trucker serial killer unit now and believe that there are 17 serial killers at large that have killed multiple victims as long-haul truckers. so why couldn't zodiac move somewhere else? >> that's our report for tonight.
tonight. thanks for joining us. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com and my hands were full. i couldn't sort through it all. with unitedhealthcare, it's different. we have access to great specialists, and our pediatrician gets all the information. everyone works as a team. and i only need to talk to one person about her care. we're more than 78,000 people looking out for 70 million americans. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare. in servicing clients that serve our country. my name is marjorie reyes. i'm a chief warrant officer. i am very grateful and appreciative that quicken loans can offer service members va loans. it was very important for me to be able to close and refinance my home quickly. i wanted to lower my mortgage payment. quicken loans guided me through every step of the process. the whole experience was amazing! [ tony ] serving those who serve us all... one more way quicken loans
any more you can tell us while we wait for the police news conference. the news conference has been delayed. we don't know how long by a few minutes or more. anything more than we have seen about the man, the suspect? >> he is 32 years old. he is norwegian. there were pictures overnight of his facebook page being shown on local television here. there are a number of photos -- i had them with me when i went to his apartment several hours ago, where the police were searched what was believed to be his apartment. i could not find anybody in there that recognized him specifically from the photos. there is talk about him having been radicalized on the outside of politics, and being an
extreme right wing individual. that was coming from some of the local media reports, not from some of the people i was speaking with. they were able to trace him through the fact -- the media was able to trace him through the fact that the police were looking for him on the island. >> are you hearing anything -- while we wait to hear more about him from the police, but do you think anything more, jim, about reaction from people as they realize the scope of the massacre on the island, anybody that was witness to it or friends of the people who were shot? are people going on the news there talking about it? >> yes, certainly. they are showing some of the same video we have been showing is the young people coming off the boats, the fishermen that went out to rescue some of the young people on his own boat, and, of course, some interviews
of the injured in the hospitalized. i think what the reaction in the middle of the night when i saw them, was disbelieve this would happened, and then more disbelief the individual arrested was seemingly from oslo as well, and that's something the country will have to come to terms with as the death toll continues to rise overnight, realizing that it's homegrown terrorism is something hard for people to come to terms with. of course we will be hearing, hopefully very soon, and you said there is a delay from the prime minister, but he was defiant last night in his statements talking about not changing the lifestyle and not changing the way they lived their lives and now they have to
come to terms with it being somebody that lived there. >> we are getting pictures, and you can see him on the island shooting. it's chilling to think about what these young people went through while this person just ran them down and massacred them, and what in the world will become of the island now, a place that has been, you know, a place of celebration for the people there in norway. it's one of their own and politically motivated. i guess we will continue to see what happens next in this story. but i can imagine that there is a collective feeling of shock there, would you say that was the main feeling of the people, what they are experiencing today? >> the shock of the number of
people is rising overnight. the island is very important. it's a retreat for young people, for the labor party, and it's something that has been used for at least a generation. it's a place -- norwegians take their holidays there and go away from home and go to lovely lakes up and down the country, and this is a place that according to one of the witnesses that was on cnn a couple hours ago, that some 100 people would have been on the island. with the long gun man dressed as a police man coming on the island and shooting them for hours, and can you see how the death toll was able to rise. there was no escape from the island. there was so many people, hundreds and hundreds on there, and the only way to escape was when the boats arrived and eventually when the police arrived. >> thank you, and norway's prime minister who was not injured in the bombing said all available
resources are being used to deal with the attacks. >> the next few days will demand a lot from us. we're ready to meet the challenge. i have a message for those that attacked us, you won't destroy us, you won't destroy our democracy. we're a small democracy. nobody can bomb us to silence us. we'll take care of each other and that's what we do best when we are attacked. >> a young person that said he lived through the shooting on the island lived through the terror. the man lied to get on the island. >> when we realized there was a bombing in oslo, and the -- many much people were not sure, and many people were seeking information, and we decided to
gather all the 700 people, and so this meeting was for just one hour before this man came along and tell us that he is a police officer and he wanted to come and support us, and we, of course, allowed him to come. when he came over, i heard a few shots going out, so nobody -- nobody actually know what happened when suddenly people were starting to run as fast as they could. and so we realized what was happening, and i did see he was shooting at the people, and
these people just fell meters in front of me. so i started running as well to the water, and we tried to swim over, but some of us returned back to the island because it was several hundred meters to the other side. >> so you are sitting there, and you are running, and this police man has come up and said that he is there to help you, and all of a sudden you realize actually this policeman is starting to shoot all of you. how close did you get to the shooter? were you able to see him? where were you shot? >> caller: yeah, people approached him as he was actually shooting, because they thought that maybe this was a drill or maybe it was a test, or maybe something, but nobody
expected this to be for real because -- come on, how can this happen in a summer camp in norway? so many people were still unsure as they were swimming over, and as he opened fire to the water, and shot people that tried to swim over to the shore, i realized i cannot follow that man and i returned. as i laid down on the shore, he was yelling out to the people, and i was maybe five or seven meters away from him. he was yelling, he was going to kill us and we will also die. so he pointed then his gun at me and he did not pull the trigger.
he left and returned maybe an hour later when a few other people have found me and gathered around me. and then people started running around because they did not know where to run. he suddenly showed up, and he shot almost everybody, me and two others were laying down, survived, because of the bodies we could hang on to and pretend we're dead. >> he spoke to me a couple hours ago from his hospital bed. he was shot in the shoulder and is recovering from a hospital. the suspect identified from a norwegian press, and some of the people have seen his facebook photo said that was the man doing the shooting. that's what we are getting from the news there in norway. we're told the news conference
has begun. we will take a break and continue right after this. every day, all around the world, energy is being produced to power our lives. while energy developement comes with some risk, north america's natural gas producers are committed to safely and responsibly providing decades of cleaner burning energy for our country, drilling thousands of feet below fresh water sources within self contained well systems and using state of the art monitoring technologies,
rigorous practices help ensure our operations are safe and clean for our communities and the environment we are america's natural gas. a network of possibilities. in here, the planned combination of at&t and t-mobile would deliver our next generation mobile broadband experience to 55 million more americans, many in small towns and rural communities, giving them a new choice. we'll deliver better service, with thousands of new cell sites... for greater access to all the things you want, whenever you want them. it's the at&t network... and what's possible in here is almost impossible to say. it's like hardwiring the market right into my desktop. launch my watchlist -- a popping stock catches my eye. pull up the price chart. see what the analysts say. as i jump back, streaming video news confirms what i thought. pull the trigger -- done. i can even do most of this on my smartphone. really, it's incredible.
like nothing i've ever experienced. unleash your investing and trade free for 60 days with e-trade. you get nothing for driving safely. truth: at allstate, you get a check in the mail twice a year, every year you don't have an accident. the safe driving bonus check. dollar for dollar, nobody protects you like allstate. our girl's an architect. our boy's a genius. we are awesome parents! biddly-boop. [ male announcer ] if you find a lower rate on a room you've booked, we won't just match it. we'll give you $50 towards your next trip. [ gnome ] it's go time.
i cannot elaborate on that. the victims and their families identified him. i am afraid they are people i noel. >> translator: it hurts me especially a place where i have been every summer since the early '70s, this place is the victim of violence. >> reporter: please comment, if you don't mind my asking in
english, please comment on the attacks, and how do you see the politics and daily life through the nordic region changing as a result of this? >> i think it's too early to comment on the motives, and on what is the reasons behind the attacks, both in oslo and the labor youth camp. it's very important for us to be clear when it comes to the responsibility of the police and the political responsibility of the government. the police has just started the investigations, and one man is arrested, and i think we will wait until we have seen more assaults before we're going to comment on the motives, and the ideology and the possible political motives for such attacks.
>> reporter: what makes you so sure that it was just one single person and not an organization, because there was a lot of explosive material and it was well-organized? how is it possible this may be just one single man? >> we are not sure about that. what we are referring to is what the police are saying, and so far they said one person. they have not concluded whether it's more than one person that is behind the two attacks. we will not speculate, because we will await the results of the investigation before we say anymore about the reasons, if it's one or more persons, and also the motives for these cruel attacks in oslo. [ speaking foreign language ]
to help the victims and their families. it's now up to each one of us to support each other. we're also going to have centers open where we can offer a place to meet others in grief. >> reporter: i have two questions. one for the prime minister and one for the justice minister. prime minister, you're going through an intense period of sadness and mourning, and what are you doing to help your country address these issues and overcome the issues, and the investigation is going over the last 24 hours intensely, and can you tell me where the
investigation is at and can you tell us if it's a success? >> the investigation is a success when we are able to tell who is behind this cruel act of violence. the police has already arrested one person and that is a good basis for continuing the investigations and of course it's very important that those who are gone will know if several persons are sentenced according to norwegian law in the norwegian system of justice. i think the responsibility of me as prime minister and the rest of the government is to be present, is to convey to the norwegian people solidarity, and the feelings we may feel. we're a small country, but a
proud country. we're all very close, especially in times like this, and i think that all norwegians feel very close to those who are victims of the violence at the youth camp and in oslo. >> it's crucial for the society and also the police to find all the facts about what is happening in central oslo, but at the youth camp also. it's crucial in the investigation to get all the information about the happeni s happenings. one important aspect, the police arrests who is responsible to do this work, but as a politician, we have no reasons today to make
any conclusions about what sort of facts is behind this happenings. it is one person who is arrested, but i want to underline we have not drown any conclusion if there are more people involved in this or what sort of motive it is, and therefore we want to give the police an opportunity now to do this work, speedy, and with enough resources. >> reporter: [ speaking foreign language ]
families, the victims, the friends involved, and then have to come back with regards to the investigation. >> reporter: [ speaking foreign language ] >> translator: question regarding that the army is helping the police to block off the streets. the technical question between the coordination of the police of the army in cases like this.
government is working despite some of their offices have been ruined. all systems are up and running and have been all the time. contingency plans that we have exercised and developed have worked according to intentions. >> translator: the army is used for security. there's nothing special with that.
>> reporter: [ speaking foreign language ] >> translator: there's the capacity to do surveillance with the police in norway. you have been focusing too much on the islamic threat and forgotten everything else? >> translator: at this point we don't want to go into a debate regarding the capacities of the secret police. it's too early.
however, we have increased their capacity significantly over the last years in order to prevent terror against norway. >> reporter: [ speaking foreign language ] >> reporter: can you say that the situation is now clear? >> translator: not really, because we have not identified every victim yet and notified the families. information to everybody involved in a key priority now.
it's a difficult identification of some of the victims. o >> translator: we had a government meeting today. so far we have not seen reason to adjust upward the threats. >> reporter: i would like to ask why the threat level has not been raised? and your entire government is to meet this afternoon. what are the major decisions you
see as necessary right away and are you receiving any cooperation from other governments internationally, in particularly, the united states? >> the government will meet later on today for several reasons. one is to discuss and exchange news on how we are proceeding on different tasks, like for instance helping people, and like sustaining those who have lost ones in the attacks, and also to, for instance, address the question of the threat level. so we are convening and meeting in the government, and we are discussing which further
measures you might take today and the days to follow. but i also said earlier, the most different ministers have met already several times, and both yesterday, doing the night, and now also in the morning just after this press conference. internationally, want to say first of all we appreciate the strong support we have received from many countries. from the prime ministers, the heads of government in all the nordic countries, and many european countries, from the united states, and from many others. we also have a very close corporation between intelligence, and they also offered their services regarding intelligence and how we can
exchange information to assist us in our investigations. how much of this is relevant in an on going investigation is too early to say, but i appreciate the strong solidarity we have seen in the last hours from our friends around the world. >> reporter: [ inaudible ]. >> the debate about the threat level is an on going discuss, of course. but when the threat level has not changed yet, it doesn't mean that we have not implemented measures. just look around in oslo. i just want to underline that
the definition of the threat level is not every time relevant for what sort of measures we're putting in oslo, for example, and we will come back to that. >> reporter: another question, if i may. i know you don't want to speak late about the motives of the gunman, but obviously, as you are aware, it has been alleged that he has connections, radical connections. how big of a threat are the extremists in norway, and how will you address the problem? >> i would not say we have a big right wing extremists in norway, but we have had some groups we unfolded before and our police is aware that there are some
eliminate the threats to an extent possible. it seems the news conference ended there in norway just before 9:00 in the morning. the prime minister and the justice minister talking with reporters, not being able to give much more information on the one suspect in custody, 32-year-old anders behring breivik. they were questioned about one person could have carried out such a bombing and the shooting that took place on the island where 80 people were massacred. he did say that they are concentrating on the people that are hurt, and the victims, and they are trying still to save lives right now.
we can imagine the dozens and dozens of people that were shot and injured. we have spoke with one of them on that island there during the shooting rampage. too early to, again, say anything about a motive. he said it was very important for the government to be clear, and he did say that there have been right wing extreme groups, that they had been followed by the police there in norway but has not considered it a big problem. that was the answer to the question about the suspect allegedly having right wing extremists connections. so that's where we stand. the prime minister telling everybody in norway this is a small country and we're close and we all feel the pain together. we will wait and get more information on the police on what they are finding out from the investigation and the suspect, but right now the government there doing what it can to appease the people of
norway and to assure they are doing everything that they can to save lives and the police are working on the investigation. we will continue to monitor, of course, the situation there, and we'll take a break and continue on with our other programs. bag. we need a portable x-ray, please! [ nurse ] i'm a nurse. i believe in the power of science and medicine. but i'm also human. and i believe in stacking the deck. [ male announcer ] get ready for the left lane. the volkswagen autobahn for all event is back. right now, get a great deal on new volkswagen models, including the jetta, awarded a top safety pick by the iihs.
massacre. u.n. secretary moon condemned the killings and said the united nations stands together with the people of norway at this terrible moment. british prime minister, david cameron gave a statement. these attacks are a stark reminder of the threat we all face from terrorism. i have offered britain's help through our intelligence cooperation. president obama was quick to condemn the attacks. he interrupted a meeting with new zealand's prime minister and offered his sorrow for the lives lost. >> i want to personally extend my condolences to the people of norway, and it's a reminder the entire international community has a stake in preventing this kind of terror from occurring, and that we have to work
cooperatively together, both with intelligence and in terms of prevention of these kinds of horrible attacks. i remember how warmly the people of norway treated us, and we will provide any support that we can to them as they investigate these occurrences. >> slowly we are learning how horrible of a situation broke out on that island when the suspect started shooting. i interviewed a couple hours ago one of the victims from that island. one man was among the people, and listen to him tell us about how he was shot and his desperate measures trying to survive. >> i am getting very good care from the people at the hospital,
the doctors and nurses. but it was now -- i am starting to realize what really happened, and i see the numbers grow, people who have lost their lives on the island, and i should be getting more and more frightened to know which people this is, because they were actually my friends. >> yes, i am sure this is very hard for you to comprehend and you are in a state of shock and you have been injured. adrien, if you can, take us back to what you all were doing when suddenly this what seemed to be a police officer was in your midst and started shooting? can you help us understand how it unfolded? >> yeah, i can start from that point when we realized that there was a bombing in oslo, and many people were not sure and many people were seeking
information, and so we decided to gather all the 700 people in our rooms and tell them what actually happened. so this meeting was from just one hour before this man came along and tell us that he is a police officer, and he wants to come to the island and support us with this, and we, of course, allowed him to come, and when he came over i heard a few shots going out, so nobody actually know what happened when suddenly people were starting to run as fast as they could, and so i was standing and we realized what was happening. i did see that he was shooting
at the people and the people just fell like two meters in front of me. i thought, of course, of running as well, as all of them did to the water. we tried to swim over, but some of us returned back to the island because it was 700 meters to the other side. >> so you are sitting there, and you are running, and this policeman has come up and said that he is there to help you, and all of a sudden you realize that actually this policeman is starting to shoot all of you. how close did you get to the shooter? were you able to see him? where were you shot? >> yeah, people approached him as he was actually shooting because they thought that maybe this was a drill or maybe this was a test or maybe something,
but nobody expected this to be for real, because, come on, how can this happen in a summer camp in norway? so many people were still unsure as they were swimming over, but as he opened fire to the water and shot people that tried to swim over to the shores, i realized i cannot follow that men and i returned. as i laid down on the shore, he was yelling out to these people and i was maybe five, maybe seven meters away from him. he was yelling he was going to kill, and we all should die. so he pointed then his gun at me, but he didn't pull the
trigger. he left and returned maybe an hour later when a few other people had found me and gathered around me, and then the people started running around because they didn't know where to run, and he suddenly showed up, and he shot almost everyone, me and two others were laying down, survived because of the bodies we could hang on to and pretend that we are dead. >> oh, my goodness. so after an hour he comes back and he shoots all of you that are huddled there together, and the only reason perhaps you are alive is because you were pretending like you were dead? >> yeah. when he shot me, i could feel his breath, and i could hear his boots, and i was too afraid to open my eyes.
he fired in my left shoulder. >> were the friends around you, were some of them killed? >> yes, all of them are people i know, and my friends, and so many too many people that stood together for something, and now they are killed because of -- i don't know why. >> so it took a while for authorities to understand what was going on on this island, and everybody is focusing on oslo, and you are having this tragedy on the island. how long after you were shot and the people were lying there with gunshot wounds was he apprehended? did police finally arrive? >> we heard shootings almost all the time, actually.
it was quiet ten or 15 minutes when he hit us for a second time. but when i heard shots, it took about an hour before the police arrived and i would say an ambulance. the whole thing took two hours. the first hour we were trying to swim and hiding, and the second part there was just a bloody, bloody mess. >> trying to swim, i would imagine the water was pretty cold and you realized you could not make it, it was too far, is that kind of why you were stuck on this island? >> yeah. i felt i already swallowed too much water, and i was the last person running to the shore from
this man, so i didn't have time to take my clothes off. as i was swimming, i felt the clothes pulling me down because i had heavy puts and clothes, and i decided to return. i was not sure if i was going to make it because i was already exhausted. but it was a choice i am glad that i did. >> well, you're alive, even though he ended up walking right up to you and shooting you. so you all were basically just trapped on that island, as far as you could tell, there was nowhere to go, and no way to get away from him? >> no. absolutely not. it was -- it wasn't -- there were people everywhere, but you didn't know how many people are armed with guns, and where they are. so that was the problem. >> yes, you had no idea of knowing if he was just one
person up there or more, correct. >> yeah, when the police finally showed up, because this man was in a police uniform, and so when the police finally showed up, we gathered approximately five or six persons around where we were, and every one started screaming, crying, and begging the police officers to throw away the weapons, because we were so frightened that maybe these were another job. >> horrible, horrible story. we so appreciate adrien speaking from us from the hospital with a gunshot wound to his shoulder. coming up in the next half hour, we are getting pictures of the shooting and the victims there on the island. we will share that and bring you more information as we continue the coverage of the bombing and kill ngz nings in norway.
>> translator: i am glad i am alive, extremely happy. i just want to go home to my family and relax. >> i was out because we went to buy candy, and when we came back we had to wait for the island. the policeman and two other members crossed over so we were forced to wait. and we heard shots and ran back up towards the hill towards the yard and hid among the stones and trees. >> translator: we felt glass hit us from behind. we saw that everything was blown up. people said bombs were around and i don't know what is going on. do you anybody that has been hurt? >> translator: no, but there have been a lot of people who have been hurt. [ male announcer ] this...is the network --
a network of possibilities. in here, the planned combination of at&t and t-mobile would deliver our next generation mobile broadband experience to 55 million more americans, many in small towns and rural communities, giving them a new choice. we'll deliver better service, with thousands of new cell sites... for greater access to all the things you want, whenever you want them. it's the at&t network... and what's possible in here is almost impossible to say. you want to keep your loved ones safe and secure. give them the gift of financial security from new york life. we've been protecting families for over 166 years.
new york life. the company you keep. we've been protecting families for over 166 years. somewhere in america, there's a doctor who can peer into the future. there's a nurse who can access in an instant every patient's past. and because the whole hospital's working together, there's a family who can breathe easy, right now. somewhere in america, we've already answered some of the nation's toughest healthcare questions. and the over 60,000 people of siemens are ready to do it again. siemens. answers. don't let times like these stand in the way of them. protect your family with the gift of financial security. backed by the highest possible ratings for financial strength.